Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam

-This post is a response to my friend's comment. By no means, am I done writing this response. I just threw this together last night and proofread it today. I will plan on editing it a little more in the future. Additionally, I am only a lay Catholic and if I have misrepresented Catholicism, I do so unwittingly and will be seeking to correct any confusion.

That is an awesome verse. I especially like John 2:2 because it gives me hope for salvation; and optimism that many can be converted.
He is expiation for our sins and not for our sins only but for those of the whole world.
I also like John 1:7. Look it up on blueletterbible.com. Walking in the light is the opposite of walking in darkness; anything that is dark or evil, or dishonest needs to be removed from our lives. When we walk in the light, everyone can see who we are and what we are all about. No dark secrets. I also like how its the blood of Jesus Christ that cleanses us from our sin. This almost seems to be the exclusive remedy. Just like the blood that was poured out on the altar was a temporary remedy for the sins of the Jewish nation, Jesus Christ's blood that was poured out on Galilee is the permanent remedy for the sins of the whole world. (Heb. 10:11-12).

But if we walk in the light as he is in the light then we have fellowship with one another and the blood of his son Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
Every priest stands daily at his ministry offering freguently those same sacrifices that can never take away sins But this one offered one sacrifice for sins ans took his seat forever at the right hand of god.

-Truly, honesty is a strong aspect of being a Christian, but it comes right after in verses 15-17 in which the New Covenant is mentioned. The New Covenant like any of the other Biblical Covenants had a stipulation that involved some sort of repetition. The previous covenant having of these having been circumcision. What was the sign of the new covenant? "This is my body, this is my blood."

I John 1:8 says that no one can truthfully say they don't have sin. Perhaps this is what confession is for? But if we have sin, then we also have guilt, and we deserve to die for it. Fortunately, we have the expiating death of Jesus Christ. That's why Hebrews 10:14 says that those who are sanctified by this one offering are perfected forever. There isn't anything further that needs to be done, and there isn't any need to attain to perfection. In the words of Jesus Christ, "It is finished."

- Don’t you think that is a kind of slippery slope; if sin, then guilt, if guilt then deserving of death? I don't know if you even need to put guilt into there. If sin, then death; it is what sin is after all. Guilt also can be useful however, in helping one recognize their sinful status. Although, 1 John 14-17 deals with the distinction that there is mortal sin and then there is non-mortal sin.

Therefore, instead of trying to perfect ourselves or make up for our sin in some kind of temporary way, we must confess it. (I John 1:8). No more hiding in darkness. No more struggling against ourselves. This is the key to peace, the key to being cleansed from all unrighteousness.

- Won’t argue that we need to seek forgiveness, but I think I should point out that he forgives our sins (I John 1:9), but it says nothing about removing the effects of the sin. In fact if you look at the whole of biblical history there is always a residual effect that comes from the sins we commit. Despite being forgiven for hoodwinking both the blessing and birthright that were rightly Esau's, Jacob still had the after effect of retaining both.

Also look at Romans 3:23. We all know this verse, it says that everyone has sinned. Everyone is precluded under damnation, initially. But how many people know about verses 21 and 22? That the righteousness of God is by faith.

-Yes, truly we are all precluded under damnation initially, because we enter into the family of the human race with all its inherent issues. The basic concept of Original sin. Why is a singular individual person not kept free from this? Not sure exactly, but I think it has a lot to do with the same reason we don’t get to choose what family we enter.

Now notice that this verse doesn't say, "salvation." It says, "righteousness." It doesn't say that righteousness is by the mystical body of Jesus. Or by a journey that perfects us. It says that righteousness can be ours, right this instant. And it is by faith.

- Truly, but what does it mean to have faith? Simply lip service? Jesus himself says, “Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.” (John 15:14) Righteousness is by faith, but what else accompanies true faith?

Look at verse 24. We are justified freely. There is no cost to us. You can even check the Greek, if you want; there is a button on the left side of the verse (click on the blue "C").

-Truly, we are justified freely, that is to say there is no cost to us. Though I think you would agree that it is required that we ask for it. This is sort of a tangent but I am beginning to suspect that you completely misunderstand the concept of purgatory. It is a purging, not of sin but of the effects of sin. Forgiveness is one thing, expiation another.

-Random: When Jesus says ". . .will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt. 12:32) there is a strong implication an age to come. What's that age?

-I do however know that a warrior victorious will not go to the victory party without first cleaning up. "I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper" (Luke 12:59). Additionally, Revelation 21:5 says “… Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.” Essentially, Jesus wants us to be the best that we can be before we enter heaven, which is something Catholic teaching affirms. As for the time frame that purgatory has, that is unknown. It could be an instant, it could last until the last judgment, anything; we just don't know.

And verse 25 says that it is Jesus Christ himself (not His church) is the expiation, through faith in His blood. All of our sins are remitted when we put our faith in the blood that He shed as the ONLY just payment for our sin. And the conclusion? Read down through verse 28. It is faith, without any works of the law, that a man is righteous?

- Truly, Jesus died for all of our sins, and is the only payment for out sins. Did you finish reading Romans 3 though? Romans 3:31 is very key and if you skip that you will miss out and be left only with a shard of truth; “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” In faith the law is established. What is going on in Romans 3 is the expression of the removal of Circumcision as the sign of the covenant. Believers in Christ are no longer required to be first Jewish and then Christian. They can go straight to being Christians. I'm not sure where it would show up in the bible at this point but being born again through water and the spirit as necessary signs of faith is related to this.

-I have to say though that I don’t understand your extra emphasis on ONLY because Catholics believe that Jesus’ death is the perfect offering given once and eternally. Jesus' sacrifice is re-presented at every Mass in continuation of Jesus's command to "do this in memory of me" and by no means occurs again. It's the new sign of the New covenant.

But what about the 10 commandments? What about confession? What about communion? These things can never purify us. (Heb. 10:14, 10:11).

-Truly, no thing can purify us except Jesus. However, if you will, following of the 10 commandments is a natural sign of faith. It can be said that no one who commits adultery really has faith in Jesus Christ. For if he truly had faith, adultery would be anathema to him. The concept of freedom under the law. It is so completely natural for one with true faith in Christ that the law is nearly a moot point, you simply don’t need to be told that adultery is bad because you understand chastity is good.

-Next, does confession purify us or does Christ? The Catholic response is Jesus and Jesus through confession. We do not divorce the two. Confession is a sacrament which is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace. No true Catholic believes that confession itself gives grace but that it necessarily does because Christ commanded it. I direct you to Matt 9:8 “But when the multitudes saw [it], they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.” Check out the story right before that verse if you will. Why do you think that right after forgiving someone of their sins there would be the line “which has given such power unto men”. If you follow the syllogism out to it’s conclusion, then men must have the power to forgive sins and that power was given by Jesus and is in the name of Jesus. “In the name of”, of course, is a phrase we find in the Bible to refer to “in the real presence of and in the real authority of.” Man has no power except that which Jesus has bestowed upon him. Does this mean any man can give forgiveness? No, Jesus only gave the “binding and loosing” command to his Apostles, an apostolic succession that is retained only in the Catholic Church. Moreover, they only have the power through the Sacrament which again, is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.

-Moving on to Communion, jeez you like to hit all the fun ones don’t you, what is Communion? The Catholic belief stems from Jesus’s own words “This is my Body” “This is my blood” among other verses. We believe that the Eucharist is Jesus, body, blood, soul and divinity, under the appearances of bread and wine; a concept we call transubstantiation. So, truly, communion if it were just bread and wine would have no purifying effect. However, no Catholic in their right mind believes that Jesus is anything less than truly present. Merely because the sacrament is inseparable from Christ is the reason it is powerful.

Instead, Jesus said that He will no longer remember our sins. (verse 17) . And the key is verse 18: "There is no more offering for sins." The idea that we can make some sort of offering for our sins is inconsistent with scripture. That's why we draw near, not with confession, not with our money, but with a full assurance of faith. What is sprinkled? The sprinkling of our hearts and the washing of our bodies here is metaphysical; it is something that Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross, and can only be experienced through faith.

-Again we must have a major false dichotomy going on here or something. Sins and the effects of sins are two different things. I have no argument concerning our being washed clean. However, if you remember that confession to a Catholic is asking forgiveness of Jesus, it becomes hard to argue against it as it is a natural act of faith. Additionally, the Eucharist is not a new offering, but a fulfillment of the Covenant Jesus made with his disciples. For more clarification see the my previous comments on this.

And look what this passage says about priests. The high priest is Jesus Christ. Human priests have to stand daily and minister the same offerings over and over (verse 11). But this is unnecessary. Look at the role Jesus plays in our lives: verse 19, we enter into the holiest of holies by the blood of Jesus Christ, with full assurance. This is our key into a relationship with God: faith, and faith alone in Jesus Christ, who is identified in verse 20 as our High Priest.

-Now, I think you just lost the context entirely. Heb 10 is all about the old Covenant ways and how they break down and are fulfilled in the new covenant. Christ is the High Priest though, regardless of time. I would also have to again bring into question where you are drawing the word “alone” out of in order to modify faith. I simply don’t think that exclusivity was present in this chapter. "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 7:21). Doing the will of the Father in Faith is something he commands.

The way into salvation and justification and purity and righteousness is a living way, Jesus Christ, who said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father but by Me. (John 14:6)" Perhaps this is why Jesus said not to call anyone on earth "father," (Matt. 23:9).

-Truly Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Can’t argue there, but can I just skip the whole "call no man father" thing? No? Okay... Suffice to say, it can’t mean literally, call no man father. Why? Because there are many other instances where Jesus’ followers call someone “father” “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?” (James 2:21) Jesus’s words must have been directed at something other than the word father. I just haven’t hit on it yet. It might be the pride obtained from falsely proclaiming authority. I have to assume that God simply does not do nonsense.

I John 4:10 also says that it is Jesus Christ, Himself, that is the propitiation for our sins. There is nothing we can do, say, think or feel to be saved. Instead, it is all Christ. Christ alone is the savior, and anything else that we can depend on for salvation or justification will fail us.

- All mercy and grace comes from Christ. I have to wonder if my notions of Christians having an understanding of other religions was a misconception. Do you think Catholics depend on anything other than Christ? I am confused. I John 4:10 is an obvious reference to the fact that we cannot earn our way to heaven.

Look at I John 2:22-23. What is it to acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ? It is to acknowledge Him as the sole benefactor, the only source of salvation. Anyone who denies the power and deity of Christ, and His power to completely and totally remit all sins by His death on the cross does not have the Father. Anyone who is not saved by faith and faith alone, anyone who thinks that anything other than Christ Himself is necessary for remission of sins, is not a child of God.

- Okay... okay.. I think I can agree with everything but the statement by “faith and faith alone” because by that you mean to imply that God only wants you to believe in him. Truly he does want only one's faith, but true faith is not simply blind faith. By no means does one earn their way to heaven but on the flip side of the coin “faith without works is dead”. It’s a symbiotic relationship, if you don’t have faith you don’t have works and if you don’t have Christ you don’t have the father. Though admittedly, you can say that one may have works without faith. However they truly don't even have works because the significance of those works is nothing, without Christ.

This might seem offensive, but the idea that, to be saved, you need to be in the Catholic church, is contrary to what it says here in I John 2. I John 5:12 makes is perfectly clear. You either have the Son, or you don't. You either have life, or you don't. There's nothing else to it. I may not be in the Catholic church, but I do have the Son. I have put my faith in His sacrifice. That's why I believe that I do, indeed, have life.

-To borrow your own words: this might seem offensive. Do you have the Son? What does it mean to have the Son? The Catholic belief is that there is no salvation outside the Church, but what is the Church? Even Catholicism will concede that only Jesus knows who will make it to heaven. The main issue here, as I understand it, is that Christians want dead certainty that they are saved and definitely are going to heaven. As if somehow the goal was heaven, nay the goal is Jesus. “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Phil 2:22) Obedience is a necessary aspect of Faith. Truly we know not the hour nor the time but while we cannot be certain of our own personal attainment of heaven, we can be 100% secure in believing in God’s unending mercy.
- Secondly, you conjecture that “There’s nothing else to it” but that contradicts Jesus’s saying that “you are my friends if you keep my commands.” It all depends on what Jesus commanded.
-If you look at the end of Matthew at what is called “the great commission”, Jesus tells his disciples to “go and make disciples of all nations”. What is interesting is that he said disciples and not, per say, followers. The difference between the two is discipline. What I was getting at exactly I kind of forgot, but suffice to say that discipline involves some sort of a set of parameters.

- Just to clarify the Catholic position: the Church is not an institution founded on mere men. No, God said He would send His Spirit to guide the apostles and they were guided to form a Church on Peter, the rock. Most of their activities that act as a model for the current church are in Acts of the Apostles.

And look at the next verse, I John 5:13-- "... that ye may know that ye have eternal life..." Your church doesn't want you to know whether or not you have eternal life until you die. Jesus Christ says that you can know right now. This verse is addressed to everyone who believes on the Son of God, and John wants them to know that they have eternal life.

- Please tell me you did not just say that. Do we know that we will be with Him simply because we believe? I John 5:13 is referencing what was just written throughout I John but what does I John say about certainty of Eternal life? I'll leave you to look through the book to disern that. However, the verse is addressed to “you that believe on the name of the Son of God.” That faith on the name is a necessary element but “faith without works is dead” and “you are my friend if you keep my commands”. Essentially, what I am trying to say is that if you follow that argument out to its conclusion, nothing short of offering everything you can offer will bring you to fulfillment by faith in Christ.

Jesus Himself said in John 5: 24, that if you accept His Word and believe on His Father, you will have eternal life. He didn't set out any other condition for righteousness. And we know that Jesus isn't a liar. If he says someone has eternal life, they have it. You can be certain. He also gets kind of rough with the Pharisees in verse 38. He says that they aren't children of God, because, if they were, they would believe in Jesus Christ instead of their dead legalistic traditions. He says, in verse 39, that we as men think the Scriptures are going to lead us to eternal life, but that it is these very Scriptures that testify of Jesus Himself. He was saying, in essence, "Here I am! The answer to all of your shortcomings, your sin, your failure. I'm standing right in front of you. But, `Ye will not come unto me, that ye may have life.'"

-Actually, that is true but the condition that faith places on us is the truly excessive weight of glory. Why do you bring up verse 39, is that verse not contradictory for sola scriptura Christians who cling to scripture? Jesus was most certainly not talking about the New Testament scriptures at the time he said that but he was refering to what the Pharisees were not catching in the old testament that Jesus's presence was fulfilling.

Don't discredit Jesus Christ. Put your faith in Him now. Believe His promise that you can be saved from your sin and empowered to live a godly life. And don't just take my word for it. Read John 5, John 8, and Romans 3. Learn from Romans 8:12-17 how the Holy Spirit can give us a full assurance of life that starts now and never ends. It is not too good to be true. It's not arrogant to think that we can be perfected and know for sure what is going to happen to us when we die. It's what the Bible says, and I believe it.
And I believe that's what makes me a Christian

- I don’t discredit Jesus Christ, but perhaps I do not need to tell you that at this point. Thank your for the excellent sections of the Bible to read.

-I have, in case you hadn’t noticed, been reading them and much more of late, but in saying that I think I will inadvertently miscommunicate something. That is to say I do know the Bible way more than originally expected. Why? Because I go to Mass consistently and for a number of years went to daily Mass. What does that have to do with anything? Well, if you attend mass every day for two years you will have heard the entire bible. Every Sunday for three years will net the majority of scripture and from what I understand all of the New Testament.

-Whether I have physically sat down much in the past and read through the my personal Bible is another question because I really haven’t done enough of that by my own standards. I've read Lord of the Rings five times all the way through but I've only been through the Bible twice on my own. More often than not, I am disoriented as to locations of verses in the Bible but that’s really where modern conveniences like blueletterbible come in handy. As I have been doing more actual picking up and reading of my Bible, I am finding more and more how Bible-believing and Christo-centric the Catholic Church really is. I had this stupid misconception that somehow because Christians emphasized that they were Bible-believing that I somehow wasn’t. Quite the contrary, the prayers that I pray, as in the “Our Father” “Hail Mary” and “Glory Be”, are all found in scripture. Nearly every part of the Mass is from scripture. The "Sign of the Cross" is, for example, as simple testament to the fact that “we proclaim Christ crucified.” As a more hairy example, the "Hail Mary" is pulled mostly from Luke, but the key thing to note is how Christ is the central gravity of the prayer. Mary has no significance without Christ. Hail Mary, full of grace the lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women and blessed in the fruit of thy womb JESUS, Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

- I need to say one more thing; I have to apologize for being so callous about faith in the past. I was raised to always understand my enemy so to speak. By studying other religions throughout high school, I was raised with a basic knowledge of what sets Catholicism apart from all the other belief systems of the world. This means that I’ve only recently been coming to the startling conclusion that people actually are often completely in the dark about what Catholics really believe.(Thanks Ray Guarendi and Fr. Kevin Fate) I tend to get stuck in that view because I don't perceive myself as totally in the dark about other religions. This means also that when you and I were talking religion often in the past, I for some reason was daft enough to believe we were both speaking under the same context when we really weren’t.

-Additionally, I am often quite facetious in the way I joke about the cliches that people hold about Christianity, Homeschoolers etc. Regrettably, I thought that the joke was that we, meaning whoever I was joking with, were laughing together at the stupidity of the joke with a mutual understanding of it as a falsehood. I’ve come to the conclusion that I have to be more vocal about what Catholicism is and what homeschooling is all about. Jokes and anecdotes(parables if you will) are the way people often truly express what they believe. By allowing myself to participate in erroneous jokes in the past, I fear that I have helped perpetuate or even create false beliefs or misconceptions about both Homeschoolers and Christ's church.

-Moreover, the basic issue comes down often to terminology we use to talk about faith. Too often Catholics get blindsided by questions like “have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.” That terminology is not natural to a Catholic, now if you to ask a Catholic “Do you believe that Jesus was crucified, died, was buried, and rose from the dead to become your Savior?” They should answer yes.

-Often I think that a Catholic basically believes very close to what he is being asked in the first question but because it is soooo basic, the question under the guise of new terminology is perceived as a trap. I know that was my initial reaction the first time I was asked that question. (edit: It is to a certain extent a trap actually, because while a Catholic can agree that Jesus died for our sins, and that we can pursue a personal relationship with him; we cannot presume to have knowledge of our own destination.)

-Eph 1:21-23 ".. and He has put all things under His feet and has made Him the head over all things for the church,which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all." Christ as the head, the Church as the Body, this verse outlines the teaching of the mystical body of Christ.

-wow, if anyone actually reads this all the way to the end I will be amazed.

Go and Set the world on FIRE.